玩不起珍品就玩大通宝宝凑凑数~

第三 fake

the 3rd ones` patina is unnatural

学习，1真漂亮

停皇陽：
第三 fake

how?

停皇陽：
第三 fake

I don't mind others question my coin, but what I hate most is others put irresponsible statement on coins without any explanation. In my mind, coin discrimination is a serious topic, we should get rid off any interest relationship from it. Besides, on that matter, I never think vietnamese is the authority of vietnam coin, maybe you guys have seen more and touched more, but also,  you guys put such many private interest in it.
 
Back to that coin, first, I find that the vietnamese never distinguished "Big Character" and "Middle Character" of 大宝通宝. For example, in your own post http://bbs.chcoin.com/show-3738794-1.html, obviously the coin in 1st, 11th and 15th floor is "Middle Character" and the coin in 9th floor is "Big Character". And I think the coin in 1st floor seems faker than what I posted from the patina. Actually, Chenyong have post typical reference for three character of 大宝通宝 on http://bbs.chcoin.com/show-1979841-1.html. We can see the "Middle Character" he post is with narrow edge on the back. To be frankly, that is my only doubt on that coin when I bought it. But ironically, I just seen the three coin which your posted and make sure that the "Middle Character" have two categories: narrow edge on the back and wide edge on the back. If you think the coin I posted is fake, thus I'm afraid all the wide edge ones should be consider fake. Because for the cost sake, there must a dozen of fake coin with same-mould, not only a single one fake coin.
 
I'm still not sure that coin is fake or not because there is no "Middle Character" in any coin dictionary by Japanese or French. If you have more evidence or same-mould picture on that, maybe I will reconsider it. But I still insist my point, if there are fake coin with same-mould of it discovered, all the wide edge "Middle Character" of 大宝通宝 are fake.
 
BTW, firstly, I belief the two 天感 you wanna sell to me is might be fake, it is different from any Japanese dictionary, and the two character"乾王" is too dispersive, and the genuine is tight and seems like one character, just like in the dictionary. I have sent the picture to Yoshida and other Japanese expert, we share the same viewpoint. So plz do not try other channel to sell it to me. Second, plz do not bother me through QQ again, I'm not a sharp person and I'm afraid it is hard for me to make a bargain with a such smart person like you guys. But whatever, still appreciated for your offering.
 
I am a rookie of vietnam coin, and you are always welcomed on this post to discuss that coin, yet it is really appreciated if you could provide more picture and evidence, not only a statement. 
 
BEST
 
Santa Cruz Cho

为了帮助您理解，特附中文版：

我从来不介意他人质疑我的钱币，但我最厌烦他人不经任何解释就给出不负责任的判断。我认为钱币鉴定是一件非常严肃的事情，应该摒弃任何利益的因素。此外，我从不认为越南人在越南钱币的真伪上有绝对的权威，你们确实看得多，接触得也多，但可惜你们往往掺杂了太多的个人利益在里面。

回到这个钱币的讨论，首先我发现越南人对大宝通宝是不分“大字版”和“中字版”的，例如，在您的发帖http://bbs.chcoin.com/show-3738794-1.html中，很明显1楼，11楼和15楼的是中字大宝，而9楼的是大字大宝。而且我个人感觉，如果说假，1楼的那枚从锈色上讲比我发的这枚假得多。陈勇版主曾经发过大宝通宝三版标准器：http://bbs.chcoin.com/show-1979841-1.html，可以看到中字版背郭较窄，说实话，这也是我当时买这枚钱币时唯一的疑问。讽刺的是，我恰恰是看了您的帖子上的三枚中字，才确定大宝中字有“阔缘版”和“窄缘版”两类。如果您认为我发的阔缘版是赝品，那我认为所有的阔缘版均为赝品的可能性很大。因为赝品往往是一批同模，而非单个一个，否则成本太高。

尽管如此，我也不会百分百确认这个钱就肯定是真的，因为毕竟无论日谱还是法谱，根本就没有中字版的拓片，因此如果您有其他的证据或同模假钱的照片，我或许愿意改变我的看法。但我依然坚持我的观点，如真有同模假钱的图片，此钱伪，则阔缘版均伪。

另外说些题外话，首先，我认为您托他人向我出售的两枚天感是伪品，这两枚与日谱原物差异太大，尤其背后“乾王”两字太过分散，而原谱中特别说明“乾王”两字紧凑如一字。我把图片发给日本的专家，他们基本和我看法一致。所以请不要再通过其他渠道向我兜售这两枚钱币了，谢谢。其次，能否不要通过QQ不停地骚扰我，我这个人生性愚钝，与您这样的聪明人做生意确实力有未逮。不过无论如何，感谢您的好意。

最后，我在越南钱方面完全是个菜鸟，因此很欢迎您继续在此贴讨论，但请多提出证据、理由和图片，而非一句简单的真或假，谢谢。

BEST


Santa Cruz Cho

http://bbs.chcoin.com/show-6072737.html
my qq : 1465690724
you have qq my? i sell coin give you? why your coin fake? because the 3rd ones` patina is unnatural , 
i don't sell coin give you. not talk with you = qq , i sell 天感 give you when? two character"乾王" is too dispersive=>
天感 is fake, if you have you sell give me i will buy , i don't want say many will people new collection viet nam coin, 
viet nam coin you don't know what rare , what not rare

停皇陽：
http://bbs.chcoin.com/show-6072737.html
my qq : 1465690724
you have qq my? ...

Hi guys, first I have no idea what do you mean by post other dynasty coin in my post. Plz DO NOT use my post as your advertisement. Second, I have said you are welcomed in that post which is based on you could express your own opinion or evidence. But what a pity, you just copy others statement, "the patina is unnatural". In China, such behavior named “Plagiarism”. And, do you really know what is unnatural mean? Your first 天感's patina is called unnatural.

Still back to that coin, I have put the original picture the seller sent me. The coin is the middle one. When it sent to me, it is covered earth, so I put it into microwave cleaning machine, and the patina revealed. Maybe is the problem of my photograph, yet the patina is quite tough. All in all, I don't consider there is problem with the patina. 

BTW, you and your brother, sent sms via qq to me ceaselessly, you wanna see the chatting history? whatever, thank you a lot for delete me from qq this morning. Then for the 天感, you guys ask one of my friend show it to me, now the picture is still in my cellphone. Do I need to make a screen capture for you? I don't lie, but you? Last, I have said I'm a rookie, mightbe I cannot distinguish which is rare or not. But for you guys, the standard of rarety is very simple, which you own is rare,which other own is not rare...

Still the same word, you are always welcomed on this post to discuss that coin from category, mould or casting technique, BUT ONLY THAT COIN, no advertisement, no lies, no self-righteous attitude, no plagiarism, no private benefits. 

BEST

Santa Cruz Cho

依然为了帮助您理解，特附中文版：

首先，我不明白为什么您在这个贴里要发无关的其他钱币的链接，请不要将我的帖子作为您打广告的地方。其次，我说欢迎您的讨论是基于您可以提出新的观点或证据，但非常可惜，您只是复制了其他人的观点“锈色不自然”，在中国，这样的行为叫做“剽窃”。另外，您真的了解“锈色不自然”的意思吗？在我看来，您发的第一个天感就是“锈色不自然”的代表。

还是说回这个钱币，下图是卖家当初发的图片，中间这枚即为此钱。当我收到的时候，上面盖了一层土，所以我放到微波清洗机里把土震掉，才露出现在的锈色。或许是我照片拍摄的不好，锈很硬，几乎剔不掉，因此我仍然觉得这个钱的锈没什么问题。

题外话，您和您的弟弟不停地在QQ上给我发消息，需要我把聊天记录发上来吗？不过无论如何，感谢您早上把我从QQ里删掉了。再说那个天感，您托我的朋友给我看发两个天感的照片，现在还存在我手机里，需要我手机截屏发上来么？我不会说谎，您呢？我说了我是个菜鸟，所以您认为我分不出什么珍贵什么不珍贵，这很正常。可是对于您来讲，钱币是否珍贵的标准只有一个，您有的即为珍贵，别人有的即为不珍贵...

最后，还是那句话，在这个贴子里讨论这枚钱币，无论是版别、版模还是铸造工艺，我永远欢迎。但是请仅限于这枚钱币来讨论，而不是广告、谎言、自以为是的态度、剽窃和利益关系。谢谢。

BEST

Santa Cruz Cho

jxdq：
the 3rd ones` patina is unnatural

兄，这个我拿来进了微波清洗机，才出来的锈，下面是原图，第二枚就是~

楼上都厉害的~吵架争论都是英文的。。。

you buy what from me? , i sell give you what? i want sell give you what? you give i know? 
you say i want sell give you 天感 , i see you read 大宝通宝 is 大通宝宝 => you don't know history viet nam coin,i don't  want say many with you, i will don't comment continued, i never sell give who 天感 , have some my friends ask me price, i say price give they, if shound ask some people sell give you, my coin i open in mountains money, you can say fake it not is problem with me, coin true is true and fake is fake if you live in viet nam, you will know why i say your coin fake